The Power of Forgiveness with Jammie Black #94

Enduring physical abuse that lead to hospitalization. Outlasting the mental abuse of being held prisoner in her own home.  Reliving the memory of being frozen in place, holding her baby, as he held a gun to her head, threatening to kill her and her children.  How could anybody forgive after going through such torture?

Our guest today, Jammie Black, shares an incredible story of how a broken person found peace and freedom through forgiveness and the miracles experienced along the way.

If forgiveness is something you struggle with, please listen to her story and see how God can help you through this spiritual challenge.

Transcript

Dan Wheeler: 0:02

Welcome to finish strong. On this edition, you'll hear the powerful story of a woman who suffered so much physical abuse that she had to be hospitalized. Because of mental abuse, she became a prisoner in her own home. She was frozen with fear as her boyfriend held a gun to her head and told her how he was going to kill her as she was clinging to her baby. How could she forgive a person who put her through so much torture? Our guests today shares an amazing story of how a broken person found peace and freedom through forgiveness, and experience many miracles along the way. If you're someone who struggles with forgiveness, please listen closely to the story. I'm Dan Wheeler, and my co hosts are Brian rollin and Terry Steen. Guys, forgiveness can be tough at times. But in this case, it almost seems impossible.

Terry Steen: 0:54

Yeah, can you imagine? It's just I, I've known Jamie for a couple of years now. And when I sat and heard her story for the first time, I had to like, take my jaw off the floor. You know, it's amazing. Yeah.

Brian Roland: 1:10

That's it. That's a tough one. I mean, I know what you say about forgiveness. And because it's always in the back of your mind. Satan wants to keep tapping on the other who wants to

Terry Steen: 1:19

keep honest to God says, If you don't forgive, I'm not gonna forgive you. But you don't have a whole lot of choice do

Dan Wheeler: 1:28

right. Well, guys, let's get into a Terry, since you know, our special guests. Why don't you introduce her?

Terry Steen: 1:33

Yes, yes. Come on in Jamie. This is Jamie black. Amy, welcome to finish strong love, love having you with us. We tried it one other time. It didn't work out. So I'm glad it did this time. And we're talking about forgiveness. And as Karen and I were out to have brunch with you and your husband, Kevin, and you started sharing your story, it was like, unbelievable. And I was like, we have got to get her on Finish strong because it's a powerful one. And we know that there's so many people that deal with and fight unforgiveness, and all the things that unforgiveness can lead to. So thanks for being here. Jamie goes to he, her and her husband go to our church. And so we've had a chance to get to know them be in some of their small groups. And so we've interacted together and had a few meals together. And Jamie's just a great lady. And so let's just jump right into it and kind of hear your story. You early on were a struggling mother with two children and just take us back to the early times. And let's just lay some groundwork as to your spiritual upbringing where you were with God in this process.

Jammie Black: 2:56

Okay, yeah, to start off as a young mother, my spiritual walk with God was very limited. I didn't grow up in a Christian home. I did have an encounter with the Lord when I was nine years old only because the church bus came by our little trailer park and picked up some kids and I remember going and listening to some fell down on those stories about Noah's Ark and, and then sharing an altar call. And I felt guilty. I felt ashamed of everything that was happening in my life. I grew up with a very dysfunctional home. And so I knew that I was a sinner. And I remember getting my life to the Lord, but not really growing up. I didn't, you know, get a chance to grow up in church or have a Bible really, as I was growing up. So by the time I was 20 years old, the only thing that I had as far as a relationship with the Lord was ace, I would say, and now I lay me down to sleep prayer like nothing. I said that if I die, that at least I could go to heaven. Yeah. That was where I was with God. Wow. Okay. said and I was I was Shawn and I had Yeah, two kids. And that's where I started at.

Terry Steen: 4:12

Yeah. Where were you living at that point? I was in Seattle, Washington. Oh, you were on Washington. That's right. That's right. So to move that forward, and the story you were sharing, you had a boyfriend, and you had a baby with this gentleman, and it was not a good relationship was it was that mediate or shortly after the relationship? Tell us about that. I understand. It was a very abusive relationship and he was your father and I'm assuming fear and anxiety. Just give us the story there. Give us that picture of what you were going through.

Jammie Black: 4:56

Uh, so yeah, I mean, broken people find our broken piece. Bull and I was living like the world looking for love in all the wrong places and, and I found what I thought was love. And yeah, it was it was an abusive relationship that started you know not It's not real bad to some put downs and some pushes and some shots but of course it progressed over time until it got to be. Yeah, extremely abusive.

Terry Steen: 5:31

And even to the point of you had to go to the hospital at some point.

Jammie Black: 5:36

Yeah, well, I got to go to the hospital once. There was multiple times, I probably should have went to the hospital. But instead, he would just like, throw me in the back of a car and say, Hey, we're gonna go somewhere and just take me away until my eyes healed up enough that I could see or Yeah, wow, would be because I, you know, was my eyes were so swelled shut, I couldn't see. So I would just wait till I would be somewhat presentable before I could come back.

Terry Steen: 6:04

Yeah, yeah. And you had did you have one child at that time, too.

Jammie Black: 6:09

And so when I met him, I'd already had one child again, like I said, I was looking for love and all the wrong places. I met him when I was actually pregnant with my first one. Okay. Okay. And then. So I had had her and then stayed with him. And we had the second child, of course, when I had his child is when the abuse just went off the rails.

Terry Steen: 6:32

Yeah, yeah. And you know, it goes, physical abuse is one thing, but sometimes the mental and the emotional abuse can be almost worse, can't it? And that was a big part of what you're going through, as well. Sure. Share some of that, as far as you mentioned, to me basically being a prisoner in your own home.

Jammie Black: 6:53

Yeah, I think a lot of people when they think of domestic violence, they think about the broken bones, but it's really about broken souls. That's really what they're trying to do is break you down and who you are. And I was completely, completely broken, to the point to where he cut me off from every relationship, every person, and literally kept me inside the house where I wasn't allowed out of the house without him. Took away phones. I mean, I had no outside communication. So I was a prisoner in my home suddenly think about Lotus lasts, but I couldn't. I couldn't have left because I was so broken down. I mean, you got tape on the outside of the door, so he would know if I open the door. My goodness. So you've opened the door and left. Yes. I was so broken down. I thought I well, I thought I was trapped.

Terry Steen: 7:45

Yeah, wow.

Brian Roland: 7:47

Well, I understand Jamie, that one way to get out was looking for a Bible that you're trying to find a Bible, and that he wouldn't allow that either. Right? Yeah. How did that happen? I got your Bible. Yeah,

Jammie Black: 8:01

he didn't want me to have anything to do with God. He wanted to be God in my life. But I had gotten so desperate, that I remember, I just started calling out to God. You know, I didn't know if God would hear me if he listened to me. But he was the only one that I could talk to. I remember just calling out and I thought I just need a Bible. I need to know you. And shortly after praying that, a couple of days later, my boyfriend had actually told me to go take the trash out and I lived in the upstairs apartment. So I knew what that meant. If I was unsupervised, I had to like run there and run back. And so I ran down the stairs with the trash and see this I got to the dumpster at the apartments. There was a bit these bottles sitting on top. Wow. So I knew that was for me. I grabbed it, I hid it underneath my underneath my shirt, ran back up to the house, went to the like I was gonna go change the baby stuff that the diapers because he would have never looked there and waited for him to leave the next day. I began to read that Bible every morning, I didn't know where to start. I started the new testing in Matthew. And so by the time I had gotten all the way through to the point of the crucifixion, I realized at that point that Jesus had died for me. Wow. I didn't have to die. For me. That's when my relationship really changed with the Lord.

Terry Steen: 9:24

Wow, for God to open that door for you to get that Bible miraculously. And begin the journey that you needed. Because you needed the strength from him for the steps that were ahead, didn't you? Yes,

Dan Wheeler: 9:38

yeah. Wow. That sounds like the movies Sleeping with the Enemy only. They have a happier ending.

Brian Roland: 9:47

So what was the final straw that made you finally take action?

Jammie Black: 9:51

Okay, so you kind of alluded to a little bit in the front and it just like what Terry has just said over reading my Bible and praying and get To know the Lord really experiencing the Holy Spirit, I did begin to find a strength that I hope thinking, I can actually get out of this. There is hope for me, I am worth it. And so clean that, and then just, I could feel everything is really escalating in that night, I really had made that decision I have got to get out of here. So what had happened was me and my boyfriend were fighting and over, I have no idea what to back into the bedroom, my daughter was already put to sleep in her bedroom, and I went out to the front room to go see our MCAT. And when I went out there to go see him, my boyfriend came out of the bedroom, he grabbed a nine millimeter nine millimeter gun, sat there and loaded it front in front of me. So I knew it was loaded. And then he sat on the temple of my head. And for two hours, two hours, he told me how I better not get any blood, any of my worthless blood all over his son when I died, he started going graphic detail with what he was going to do with my body. What his plan was so that at this point, I knew it was no longer threats, because he had threatened to kill me before but he had actually had it well thought plan told me what he was going to do with the kids. And I believed that this was what he was going to do. And I just remember sitting there and it had been the peace of God that not only kept my baby asleep that he didn't move, but I didn't. I stayed there just frozen trying not to do anything that would cause him to pull that trigger. And eventually, he did he just got mad and hit me upside the head with the gun and walked out. But at that point, I knew Okay, God, if you get me out of this, I will give you my whole life. And wow, you did. Yeah.

Dan Wheeler: 11:52

So what was the next step? How did you begin to kind of escape to your new life with Christ? What what did that look like?

Jammie Black: 12:00

Well, yeah, it was a world when of God just opening up opportunities, the right time for me to escape people along the way, who helps me. And then I ended up in Texas, with, you know, just some great church, people who had helped me along, I got baptized. I did get some help from the crisis center, because I needed, you know, restraining orders and different things. And I remember that they had even tried to do the mental counseling and things with me. They said, my state when I arrived, there was I had so much PTSD, that I was just like a person of a prisoner of war, I had the same mindset of somebody who had been a prisoner of war. Wow, we talked to people, I was always looking over my shoulder, I was living in that fear and anxiety. But I just kept pressing on with God, because that was the only place that I felt safe. That I felt any kind of peace and the Holy Spirit just kept holding me during that whole time and wooing me back in strengthening me.

Dan Wheeler: 13:05

So just real quickly, how did you escape? Did he go to work or something or leave you alone? Did you just take off?

Jammie Black: 13:11

Yeah, he did. He went to work. And I ended up just grabbing a trash bag, threw some clothes in there, I was going to walk out the door, I ended up getting scared and calling the police and that was a whole nother issue. But they told me that I should go get a restraining order. So I went down to the courthouse and got a restraining order and and I was afraid because one of the officers that actually told me if I leave that they will charge me with kidnapping, and

Dan Wheeler: 13:38

really okay.

Jammie Black: 13:41

I said, Well, you know, I don't know what to do. And she said, She's we're gonna go I said, my parents in Texas, it's just letting you go on vacation anytime you want. So that was just me lots of little ways all the way through.

Dan Wheeler: 13:55

So you've mentioned being filled with fear. You must have just been gripped by fear during for a long time. How long did it take before that began to dissipate?

Jammie Black: 14:06

Wow. I don't know. The first month was really, really rough. Like I said, just always looking over my shoulder. But I know as I just kept pressing on with God, and go into church and letting him fill me that really made a huge difference in prayer. Yeah, that's huge. He had one of the first things I know, I couldn't be where I am today if it wasn't for God, just cheaper wooing me to him and to talk to him and then impressing upon me to actually forgive Anthony, which sounds crazy. They're like, why would you asked me to do this? I'm with a turret, you know. But because God is wiser than we are and, and smarter than we are. He knew that that was absolutely essential for my heart. process for me to begin to heal.

Dan Wheeler: 15:03

It's it sounds like you really matured in the Lord quickly, just reading your Bible and pouring in and pressing in. So, I mean, without God, this would have been impossible. It's obviously a miracle. Now, did your former boyfriend eventually find you?

Jammie Black: 15:20

He did. He did. At first he called it was his lawyer who had called in his lawyer recall and harass and say I was an unfit mother, and they were going to get my take my children away, and when that didn't work to get me to come back. And he eventually that the word quit calling, but I think that's how the abuser had found me. So he would call and he would harass me, sometimes he would try to use the same intimidation tactics that you had before. Sometimes he would try to do the sweet talking thing that they do. And, you know, it just feels like Anthony, I don't want to talk to you don't call me. I don't want to talk to you. But during this process, I was fighting with God, where he was telling me to pray for this man. And I was telling me God, I don't want to pray for this. I don't want to pay for it. You know, based on your door, asking me to, I'm going to and I would I remember just being just, I would grit my teeth and my fists and be like, Okay, God. I was it was not pretty, it's sear, it was not easy. And I wrestled with God, but he just kept prompting me to do it to do it. And over that is how I began to get free. Like without that I would never have gotten trained eventually, it really did become a sincere, like, God softened my heart to where I actually did want not no harm for him, you know? Yeah. And one of that life, because forgiveness does not mean reconciliation always don't true. Good point. It doesn't mean that it was okay. It didn't mean that it was being swept under the rug, or, you know, that, that I deserved it, none of those things, but it just meant that I was free, and that he no longer owed me anything.

Terry Steen: 17:17

Right? Yeah, I was just going to ask you about. Because this is really the meat of where we're going here is this forgiving process, and what you went through, and you've just stepped into a beautifully, in that. It's all God, you didn't want to do it within yourself. You struggled to even say the words, but it's also interesting that he allowed your boyfriend, former boyfriend to find you, and for you to maintain relationship, because he had a purpose down the road for that as well. But you in this process allowed God to soften your heart. That's what the Holy Spirit does. He takes a broken life and begins to put it back together, begins to give more strength more power. And take us on through that as to what happened as you reconnected, that you had opportunity with him to speak further. And where God took you along that path?

Jammie Black: 18:24

Yes. So yeah, God, you know, just continue to work and heal me and, and as I let go of thinking that, that my boyfriend was the one that owed me something, and allowed, put him in God's hands and allow God to fill me for what I need. Because no matter how much, even if he would have grovelled, or would have asked for forgiveness, He could never repay the way God could fix. nothing done to fix my brokenness. He didn't even want he didn't even keep up when asked it he actually had called one of the times. And I had told him, you know, as he was talking, and like I said, he was trying to do this little sweet talking thing. And I said, Anthony, you know, I forgive you. And she didn't think he did anything wrong. He did

Terry Steen: 19:14

things and makes it harder. Yeah, does it? Yeah.

Jammie Black: 19:19

I said, If I said in Jesus would forgive you, if you were to ask him. And he said, God would never forgive me for what I've done. And I said, Yes, he will. If he's forgiven me, they'll forgive you. And if you want, I'll lead you in a prayer. And really, he prayed the prayer with me. We talked for a few minutes he got off the phone and and that was the last time that I spoke to him. The next phone call that I got regarding him was actually from a friend of ours, and they had said that he had been up snowboarding. And he went off of he went out of balance went off a cliff. Sell into the broke is now kid died of hypothermia.

Terry Steen: 20:03

And what was the timeframe on that for when you had talked with him last two months, two

Jammie Black: 20:10

months, two months. That's what gets me so much about the story, not only what I know, God has done with me in what he like, I would not be the be talking to you right now, if I didn't forgive, I would still be reliving the bitterness and the anger and I wouldn't have been set free. Art that hits me the most is we don't understand the power of forgiveness. Is that I think about what is I didn't forgive him. Sure. In the beginning, I was like, Yeah, I wanted him to go to hell. But if I didn't forgive them, would anybody have reached him? Anyone been able to have reached them? Yeah. Anyone ever shared? You know, in person, no, hurting people, hurt people, broken people break people. It's, you know, he was a hurting person that just needed Jesus. We all do. And no matter what we've done, we all need that same forgiveness. And we all you know, deserve a full take it and we'll take it and so we can't hold on to it. We can't hold on unforgiveness. It's not easy. It's not easy. I'm not I don't think this is like, Oh, I just read through all these months and all this. ugly guys, it was ugly. And it was a final like I had to keep, keep doing it. But just think about what if I didn't? What if I did? Yeah.

Brian Roland: 21:36

Right. And you said it was about two months period, between the time it was converted? And as asked, excellent. You don't know. And who knows how many people he reached, or he talked to, and was able to tell what happened in his life. So this may have just bloomed out?

Jammie Black: 21:53

No till we get to heaven. Right.

Brian Roland: 21:55

But he's gonna be there. Yes, absolutely. Thanks. That is fantastic.

Terry Steen: 21:59

Well, Jamie, if, if we have a few minutes left, share what you think somebody needs to hear if they're dealing and fighting with unforgiveness? And then could you just go into a short prayer with them to encourage them before we let you go?

Jammie Black: 22:20

Yeah, I would say, oh, you know, forgiveness can feel like a dirty word. Sometimes it can feel like it's something that you don't want to do. It feels hard, it feels ugly. It feels unfair to say I have to forgive. But God doesn't do it to hurt you to torture you, too. He's stealing it because he wants to set me free. Right. Forgiveness is all about setting us free setting others free keeping our relationship open between us and the Lord. We don't need to hold on to offenses no matter what it takes. Yeah. It's it's not easy. And so I understand that, I get it. I get it. It's not hard. I don't know your story. Your story may not be my story, but it hurts, whatever happened hurt. And I'm here to say I'm sorry. I'm sorry, that hurt you. But God can make up for it. Maybe you're even mad at God. But just trust Him. And release that anger, release that bitterness and just trust Him because He can fill you up and reading things the way that you can never

Dan Wheeler: 23:37

imagine. Amen?

Jammie Black: 23:39

Sure. For you. So don't keep yourself in that bondage. Don't keep yourself tied to that bitterness that hurt that was that story. Move on, and allow God to work in your life. That's what I would say.

Dan Wheeler: 23:55

That's great. That's fair. Would you lead us in prayer for those that are having trouble with forgiveness?

Jammie Black: 24:02

Yes, sir. Thank you father so much. God, I think you that you help us you not only ask us to do things, but where do you show us the way we don't have to it doesn't have to feel good. It doesn't have to feel right. It doesn't even have to feel sincere when we started work. We just want to be obedient to you and trust you more. We want to lay all of our hurts in our bitterness and our our pain and we just want to lay it at your feet. Lord, we want to release the people who have heard us and just help us Holy Spirit help us to do that. hold our hand walk us through it. Where do you know each of our stories Look, you can't get cap every tear and a bottle or you just wasted more than if you are that you are close to us and just help us walk through this walk and set us free. Let us be set free and let us set others free board knowing that we don't want to hold we don't want to demand payments anymore. or from anybody who are paid at all, and we accept your payment and we just lay all of our pain at your feet Laurie, we just asked you to work in these situations work in the lives of other people work in our own heart Lord, forgive us where we have not forgiven ourselves or we were not forgiven you or wherever there's unforgiveness, Lord, just help us to, to let it go forward and we trust you and we just thank you so much for your glory. We're gonna can't wait to hear all the wonderful stories that come from people just letting go and sending free and just trusting you Lord God can't wait to where all another together to tell him all your wonderful works for forgetting us for paying the ultimate price for just love you and honor you and bless you and praise you. In Jesus name. Amen.

Dan Wheeler: 25:53

Amen. Amen. Well, Terry, you're right. Excellent interview, Jamie. Hang tight, hang tight backstage. Okay, we're gonna kinda wrap things up here. But wow, thank you for

Jammie Black: 26:06

for letting me share. Thanks,

Terry Steen: 26:07

Jamie. You did great.

Dan Wheeler: 26:10

Yeah. So what kinda let Jamie go there? But wow, what a story, guys.

Brian Roland: 26:17

You know, I listened to that. And it really you think how, what does it take take to forgive somebody after something like that? Because, you know, just the little things that we want to hold on to that, that we're not supposed to. And then something so traumatic like that, and they have to live through that. And when their kids had to see this happen, boom, yeah. You know, and it was never got the torture about that. But it's just it just amazing. And this is where God, he does the amazing.

Terry Steen: 26:44

Yeah, I mean, we have things that come up, somebody might say something that offends us, right? And we get upset. You have all these family issues that you hear about these families that are broken just because of words. Yeah. And they can't forgive. And so the devil, he uses that many times.

Dan Wheeler: 27:04

Well, think about Jamie the next time you struggle with forgiveness, and no, if you don't forgive, then God cannot forgive you. He's very clear about that scripture. Guys, this was a great addition of finish strong, and we need to finish strong throughout our life by forgiving the power of forgiveness. Well, thank you so much. Yes, this

Brian Roland: 27:26

is this is a good one for people to share. And to let people know how to reach it over on YouTube in it because this is the type of program that there's more people out there hurting on this subject than we realize.

Dan Wheeler: 27:36

All right, we're gonna wrap things up thank you so much, and we'll see you next time on Finish strong God bless.

John Matarazzo: 27:44

Thank you for listening to finish strong. For more information about finish strong and fearless faith, check out their website, eth faith.org. Make sure that you rate and review this podcast to help more people accomplish their God given purpose so that together we can finish strong